d20 NPC Wiki talk:NPC Templates
Updated to true 'templates' Since the goal of this page was to offer 'templates' for users to use in NPC creation, I took it upon myself to update it to a series of true 'templates' in the wiki meaning of the word. Now the three standard styles are their own template, and I changed the instructions on how to use them at the top of the page. I would suggest that in the future, if users want to create custom variants of the 'basic' templates, they should make their own template (or use their users' Talk page) to create their variant, rather than this group page, just for cleanliness. The best would probably be to have users create custom templates to 'subst:' into their creations, and link to their templates from their Talk or User pages if they want to advertise them. --MidnightLightning 22:22, 24 January 2006 (UTC) Interchangable templates I think a good goal for these templates, for those who want to use them, is to progress them to true templates, where you can pass in the variables you want, and it will spit out the page, rather than have to do the "subst:" trick. In the end, if it looks like: Then, if a newer and greater template came out, or if you wanted to switch to another one, you just change the name of the template and everything else adjusts. --MidnightLightning 22:36, 3 February 2006 (UTC) :I'd wanted to respond because I think its cool you're doing this. This level of detail spooks me and I don't know how to do it. If it were some kind of spreadsheet (instead of having to type out name=) or interactive webpage it would be much less spooky.Graf 02:08, 27 March 2006 (UTC) ::The only problem, as I've commented on in the Main talk page (and should probably mention here) this system can't be done (well) until the site upgrades to MediaWiki v1.6; until then, it's just a pipe dream, so no worries about it getting too complex too soon :) --MidnightLightning 15:04, 27 March 2006 (UTC) FYI, if you haven't read this whole talk page and didn't see my happy dance in the next section. Wikia has upgraded to Mediawiki v1.7alpha, so it is no longer a pipe dream. Indeed, Newstat2 is in progress which will use this new feature. Eventually, I hope that the process to use a different stat block for a character would involve changing the name of the template used and nothing else (i.e. all parameters would be the same between the various styles). --MidnightLightning 12:24, 2 May 2006 (UTC) Stat Block Style ::Conversation moved from the Talk: Main Page page:: Ok. I realize I'm a bit new here but shouldn't we have some sort of common format? Personally, since its easy to read and this is the internet so space isn't a problem for us, I like the new WotC format. A whole bunch of monsters are missing things like Full Attack vs. Standard-Action attack. (Sometimes it's easy to figure out but sometimes it's not) Can anyone with slick skills take some of the good looking templates that exist and make a common template for us? Graf 08:30, 24 March 2006 (UTC) "Templates" The only problem is that "templates" in the MediaWiki sense (which is the engine this site is running) usually don't copy the template to the page, you just refer to it like This would be great, if each NPC required all areas of the stat block. But for most creatures, items like "Aura" and "SR" don't apply, and including them just makes clutter (and it isn't true to the 'new' stat style). Hence, the best we can do (and what I set up) is to use the MediaWiki subst: command, which when you save the page, replaces your call to the template with the actual, static contents of the template, which you can then edit, removing what you don't need, yet still have a framework to work from. There are several Templates created for NPC stat blocks, and you can find them on the NPC Templates page. If, however, the MediaWiki engine that WikiCities uses was upgraded from v1.5 to v1.6, the feature to include intelligence along the lines of "If 'aura' is not defined, skip to the next item, without printing 'Aura ' at all.". The workhorse template If, which is part of v1.6 is what's needed, but if I do , I get: ; the template doesn't evaluate at all, since the concept of default values for a parameter is not there. The moment that result becomes something other than the literal contents of that If template I made, then we can do beautiful things with automated stat block templates. --MidnightLightning 23:02, 24 March 2006 (UTC) ::Eureka! Wikia has updated to the MediaWiki v1.7alpha version, so as you can see above, the If template now evaluates correctly! Oh frabjous day! I'll look into making a more complex Stat block template shortly... --MidnightLightning 19:18, 24 April 2006 (UTC) :::Dude. If you make this template, I'm going to kill myself going around putting everything in the new format. We'll definitely want to try recruiting some help on this... imagine! Standardized entries! Quality standards! Our little wiki will become awesome! Fieari 20:26, 24 April 2006 (UTC) :I should apologize. I was looking for the “stat block template” that you linked to above. I’m going to try to edit the wiki a bit to make it easier for noobs to find. Also monsters using the “new” stat block don’t have entries for attack (i.e. standard action) and full attack I’m going to add that to the “New” stat block. IMHO its one of the areas people often get wrong and should be calculated out in advance. (i.e. if standard attack you get strength x 1.5 bonus to damage, blah blah blah. It can be tricky to back out the standard attack from a full attack sequence on the fly). :Obviously something like a template that filled that all in would be very cool too. (As would, since it sounds like the template isn’t possible yet; when you make a new monster, it automatically filling in the “new” page with the New Stat block template text).Graf 01:15, 27 March 2006 (UTC) ::Please see my comments on the Template_talk:StatDMG2 page; I don't think it's 'wrong' to not have the full vs. standard attack specific lines in the new stat style, since that's not the way WotC is setting the standard for that stat layout. Both the 'short' and the 'old' (Monster Manual) style templates do have full vs. standard attack lines because that's the way those layouts were done; the new style is slightly different and doesn't have the two attack methods defined. --MidnightLightning 15:25, 27 March 2006 (UTC) :::I think this has the potential to get both long and detailed. Started a on thread on EnWorld to discuss this point. Basically I see the point WotC isn't clear, but I also think we ought to encourage people to include this info as it's important (and WotC seems inconsistent on whether they include it or not). Personally I think that not having clearly spelled out attack progressions is amateurish; we are amateurs, of course, but encouraging posting stat blocks that someone has to sit down and fix up before they can use it in their game strikes me as an opportunity missed. ::Since the consensus on the EnWorld thread seems to be either against or neutral on this change, I'm going to change it back, and let the users who are using the template make the choice on how they want to format that attack line. --MidnightLightning 16:51, 28 March 2006 (UTC) I'd like to point out that D20 Modern has its own section on this site. Is it possible to start working on a Modern version? Maybe I can clone your template and make a few changes so it's appropriate for D20 Modern. PsiSeveredHead 03:11, 5 April 2006 (UTC) :You're welcome to borrow; I personally have not worked with D20 Modern, so have no idea what a 'standard' stat block looks like for that system, so I'll leave that to someone else to perfect for those who want it. --MidnightLightning 14:54, 5 April 2006 (UTC) "Ugly" templates Some of the templates we use on the site, such as multi-stage, look pretty ugly. I've been trying to copy the prettier looking wikipedia template formats, with no luck so far. Anyone else want to try? PsiSeveredHead 04:15, 27 April 2006 (UTC) :Well, even though it's my original design you're calling "ugly", I'll give you a hand. Which Wikipedia templates are you attempting to copy? --MidnightLightning I copied the "neutrality disputed" template, without the symbol. I'd like to figure out how to give them a border, though. PsiSeveredHead 15:22, 27 April 2006 (UTC) :The Template:Part of Group is now pink, centered and with a thin, gray border, like the Wikipedia 'disputed' templates. However, I don't think pink is the best color for that banner. Usually pinks, reds, oranges, and yellows are reserved for warning notices and green, blue and purple colors for just informative messages (which is why I created them as a blue background. Since there's not something wrong with the article if you choose to use this template, I'd say make it a cooler color to not be such an eye magnet. --MidnightLightning 12:21, 28 April 2006 (UTC) I changed it to light blue. PsiSeveredHead 02:43, 16 May 2006 (UTC) How do you use the NPC templates? I tried to use the new template at the Billy Timbus page, but if you take a look at it, it's clear I don't know what I'm doing. How do I get it to work? How much of the template do I need to copy? Etc. I think there needs to be a step-by-step guide as to how to use the templates. PsiSeveredHead 03:02, 16 May 2006 (UTC) :You're doing fine; there's just a few things you missed, which many others may miss too: #You were missing the closing '}}' on your template call, which was why you were seeing text in Billy's page rather than the formatted data. The syntax for calling any template is , or more advanced templates would be . You were calling ' so it wasn't being detected as a template call. #There is no template called Modernstatnew, which I'm going to go back and find who added that to the NPC Templates page and see if I can correct it. I therefore linked Billy's page to the Newstat2 template, which is what the Modernstatnew looks to be somewhat based on, so Billy's page works, though some of the variables don't work like intended. #You don't need to put parenthesis around the values you set; they're in the sample just for illustration purposes. I've removed them from Billy's page where they're not needed. :--MidnightLightning 18:11, 16 May 2006 (UTC) :Aha! Fourth point: it was you who added the D20 Modern Template breakdown to the NPC Templates page. Just adding the breakdown like that on the NPC Templates page doesn't actually create the template. If you're not sure about how something works, please contact an administrator or talk about it on the Talk: page before making changes to a page with the "Official Policy" header on it. I would suggest you read up on MediaWiki templates first, to get a better grasp on what they do. Secondly, edit the page Template:Modernstatnew page to be the template needed (probably copying from the Newstat2 page to get a starting point). Then you could use in an article page to use your template. :--MidnightLightning 18:21, 16 May 2006 (UTC) Proposed D20 Modern new template Based on the new Newstat2 template that uses the new template features of this new version of MediaWiki, this is a proposal by PsiSeveredHead on the changes that would need to be done to make it D20 Modern-compliant. This template does not exist yet and hence should not be added to the this main article until it's fully functional. If anyone wants to add it in, they're welcome to do so. --MidnightLightning 18:13, 16 May 2006 (UTC) True20 statblock template I've taken the liberty of creating a True20 statblock template, Template:T20stat1, and of posting it on NPC Templates. I also posted an NPC using it, to make sure it works: Retired Soldier (Sheriff of Rural Town). I realize I'm new here, but the template works, as far as I can tell. If anyone spots any difficulties with it, please let me know. Thank you. ACodispo 02:29, 15 June 2006 (UTC) :Thanks for the template, it looks to be well structured, so no problems there. I've never heard of the True20 game system, but a quick Google found me their website. They do mention that they're "based on the world's most popular roleplaying game system", but I never see them actually come out and say the term "d20 system". Which makes me wonder about their license. I can't find anywhere their licensing terms (other than referring to the Open Gaming License once), and their forums don't have a place for people to post their character creations, so will Green Ronin jump on us for posting True20 characters? --MidnightLightning 14:51, 15 June 2006 (UTC) ::I did a little research on this just now. As far as I can tell, True20 is not d20 System, but it is mostly OGC. According to the title page of True20 Adventure Roleplaying by Steve Kenson, "all character and place names and descriptions, all artwork and images" are PI, and other than that, the rules are OGC. The term "True20" is a trademark of Green Ronin. I'm not sure if using that term here constitutes a claim of compatability, or anything else dangerous. I'll do some more research in the next few days. What do you think? --ACodispo 15:46, 15 June 2006 (UTC) Pathfinder-style stat block With the release of Paizo's Pathfinder books coming out later this year, they've introduced a new stat block style based on the DMG2 style but with some modifications. It's probably too new to tell right now, but if people get a strong opinion on this new style, I'll likely come up with another stat block template to create 'pathfinder-style' stat blocks. --MidnightLightning 15:28, 24 May 2007 (UTC)